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TOPIC: 1/4 scale wood boat build, planking and vacuum bagging questions?

Re: 1/4 scale wood boat build, planking and vacuum bagging questions? 2 years 6 months ago #19249

  • woody
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Thanks for the informative link, Smoke.

It's obvious that this method will provide a very strong flat board.
But if you try to apply the method on to shaping the 3-dimensional hull on a boat, I think you will get more hard challenges than you really want to deal with.

For my part I would stay with the cross-planking and (maybe) just put a thin sheet of carbon fibres in somewhere between the layers. This can easily be done without vacuum bagging, as carbon fibres are very stretchable.

Why choose the most difficult solution, when the "simple" way is sufficient?

Again: Just my humble opinion. :)

Cheers! :cheer:

Woody.
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Re: 1/4 scale wood boat build, planking and vacuum bagging questions? 2 years 6 months ago #19250

  • smokeater2005
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You are very right woody, it is bit tricky to get a seal on the non flat boat hull. But an overlay of the carbon fiber on top of 2 layers of 45 degree planking should provide a strong base and using vacuum bagging technic gives optimal resin to fiber ratio which from what I understand is up to about a 35% strenght increase of hand layups.

I believe I have always done things to the inth degree, I believe I was born stubborn...lol
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Re: 1/4 scale wood boat build, planking and vacuum bagging questions? 2 years 6 months ago #19251

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smokeater2005 wrote:
You are very right woody, it is bit tricky to get a seal on the non flat boat hull. But an overlay of the carbon fiber on top of 2 layers of 45 degree planking should provide a strong base and using vacuum bagging technic gives optimal resin to fiber ratio which from what I understand is up to about a 35% strenght increase of hand layups.

I believe I have always done things to the inth degree, I believe I was born stubborn...lol

It's a good thing to be stubborn if you have the experience and the means to perform your ideas.
But still I do not understand why you just don't roll on a layer of carbon fiber over the cross-planking before adding the outer layer of planking.
If you reach a hull thickness about 5 mm, the hull itself should be just as strong as a similar hull of glassfibre - and even lighter.

Actually this discussion gave me an idea: Why not just build a boat by shaping up some sort of solid foam and then use the cross-planking method. If the cross-planking is really bended in 3 dimensions, the hull will be incredibly strong, even without spants/profiles, and you can chop the foam out of the hull when its done!
I am sure this could produce a hull just as strong as a glassed hull, but much more beautiful if you use mahogany or similar on the outer layer.
That was just an idea.

For now I am in to getting myself together to continue the build of my own traditional deep vee mono, "My Smoking Cigarette". ;)

Cheers and good luck. :cheer:

Woody.
(AKA Woodie)...
Last Edit: 2 years 6 months ago by woody.
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Re: 1/4 scale wood boat build, planking and vacuum bagging questions? 2 years 6 months ago #19257

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your idea of putting the carbon fiber ontop of the cross planking and under the final layer of length planking is spot on to what i want to do. The only reason to put myself threw vacuum bag curring of the carbon fiber is because there is almost no way to judge the carbon to resin ratio when rolling it on and from my research into DIY-carbon fiber the ratio is what takes the strenght from more than firberglass to a strenght of KSI=644 ; where 1 KSI= 1000 PSI, or 1 PSI= 6.89 kilopascals. The only reason i would do both cross planking layers first is to doubly make sure that i would have an air tight seal for the vacuum bagging. Also, once i am set up for vacuum bagging, i could use it on the final Veneer layer planking and not have to use staples, screws, filler... and just give the final layer a quick sand and clear the living crap out of it with a spray gun...
the design of the deck and other parts of the boat make using the stringers an other things much needed IMO...
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Re: 1/4 scale wood boat build, planking and vacuum bagging questions? 2 years 6 months ago #19262

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Hi Smoke.

I really think that you are getting too scientific about something that could be done "simple".
I would never do the vacuum bagging, as I am sure that a good cross-planking will do the job to your full satisfaction.
If you want a scale look on the outer planking, just use small nails, remove them and put wood filler in the holes. Real wooden boats in 1:1 also have wooden plugs covering the screws, and by doing this you just add some more scale look, as the wood filling will imitate the wooden plugs.
Please do not challenge yourself too much. The risk of failure rises with the challenge - and for what?

Advise from a learned boat-builder.

Cheers and best wishes! :cheer:

Woody.
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Re: 1/4 scale wood boat build, planking and vacuum bagging questions? 2 years 6 months ago #19263

  • Mercury94
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As I posted before there is no need building a scale boat that strong. Cross plank or plank over ply will do just fine.
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Re: 1/4 scale wood boat build, planking and vacuum bagging questions? 2 years 6 months ago #19265

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OK, ok... I think that you guys are right about the carbon fiber thing cause, well any type of scale boat build of this caliber would not see more than 40mph anyway, due to weight and air flow...

I still wanna vacuum bag something in carbon fiber and make it go really fast...LOL

For me though i dont care for the riggers as they seem to have no style... i wonder what is out there that goes fast and has style?....
hmmmm...
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Re: 1/4 scale wood boat build, planking and vacuum bagging questions? 2 years 6 months ago #19266

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Smoke.

You just build that beautiful runabout (mono). And I agree with you. I don't like strange "unboatly" constructions like riggers etc.. Admitted they are very fast. But only on dull flat waters of ponds. (Sorry Marc and others ;) )
In my world a real boat is a sturdy mono able to take some fresh chop offshore, and the true challenge is to build such a boat will be making it run steady, avoiding flip-overs, diving and chine-walking.

BTW: Don't bother too much about the weight issue. A well balanced offshore mono will run better with some extra weight and a powerfull engine.

Good luck! :cheer:

Woodie.
Last Edit: 2 years 6 months ago by woody.
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Re: 1/4 scale wood boat build, planking and vacuum bagging questions? 2 years 5 months ago #19283

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what do you guys think of this as a fast wood boat design?zephyr-16
Of course this would be a 1/3 scale build or about 64"L*20"W?

and a secound carbon fiber idea hit me...
i could carbon fiber laminate the 1/32"H*1"W*... planking strips thus not needing the crazy full hull bottom layup between the planking and the finishing veneer...?

the strenght would be enough to let me run twin RCMK600s for a total of 28hp and 8lb/ft torque. Thus oldschool beauty and craftsmanship with new school tech and real fast speed enjoyment...
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Re: 1/4 scale wood boat build, planking and vacuum bagging questions? 2 years 5 months ago #19284

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Hi Smoke.

Seems you have some difficulties deciding what to build.
So here's my opinion.

About scale-boats: The Zephyr is ugly compared to a beautiful runabout / ChrisCraft type. Just know that none of them will do good neither in racing on ponds or off-shore.

Deep Vee Monos: The right thing for real off-shore racing. Build it rough and heavy, and set it up with a powerfull engine like a 10-14 hp blata.

Pond Racers in any form: Light weight is the issue. Typical set up with a Zenoah or likely.

My advice? Forget the scaling, and go for a simple and sturdy Deep Vee Mono with a huge engine. This will be what the Pond Racers call a "Fun Boat". And they are right: It's much more fun to run a solid bullet splashing through some chop.

Just my opinion.

Cheers! :cheer:

Woody
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