Build quality from engine builder

Hi guys just putting this out there,
i brought 3 26cc pro mod motors, 2 stock 26cc motors,
2 modded and 1 stock, all of which failed within .5 - 1.5 litres of there life (still breaking them in),
broken cons, broken pistons, scored barrels. (all of the motors had failed bearings and no pin washers)

all of which i have had the answer back from builder was, wrong oil, water in engine.... over heating, all of which was just on one of the motors, nothing but "customer is wrong" additude.
All 5 motors were built in my opinion sub standard,

so, after all this i decided to pull apart the last of the pro mod engines before running it can anyone spot anything wrong.
P.s all the engines were built like this,

after the first motor failed i tried to talk to the builder bring up the concern about the rest of the motors but got very little response
i tired to even suggest splitting the difference on parts and buying another engine but with proper bearing and washers. but no good.

now its past the 3 months warranty period so he defiantly wont do anything now.(first motor failed before) others failed 3 days after on second breaking day

now i wont bother putting his name or company up on this,
all i can do is join the 5 other people that he has burnt in Australia with crap motors (wish i had found out about these earlier).

I think the missing thrust washers are typical of some of the work being done by so called engine modifiers. To be an engine builder means you have built the engine from scratch. One of the surprising things is people are putting there names on very sloppy work such as what is shown in the two photos. It's a shame that people are giving their money for work that does not come close to being correctly done. This is why I believe in many instances it 's better to learn how to do you own modifications.

Jim Allen

And for this crap they charge $595.00. I have decided to learn to do my own. Then if it doesn't hold up, it's my fault.

Your so called well known builder pays around $200.00 for an engine, then he will spend 2 to 3 hours doing what he does and then add $400.00 for that. I don't care how good he is, he's not worth $100.00 per hour.

From 2001 to 2007 I owned a real CNC machine shop where I had $150,000.00 worth of machinery and I couldn't charge $100.00 per hour. What makes these "ENGINE BUILDERS" think that with a bench and a Dremel then can charge that rate?

They do it because guys like you and I will pay for it. NOT ANY MORE.

well im a aussie 2 and how about metioning there name so others don't have issuses with the same person,or pm me and let me no so I don't have the same issuses or others that I no,,that would be a fair deal for others and if there is major issuses with the person you bought from it will help others,from making the same mistakes,and after all if people aint happy or getting what they pay for they wont be around long

WMP wrote: Hi guys just putting this out there,
i brought 3 26cc pro mod motors, 2 stock 26cc motors,
2 modded and 1 stock, all of which failed within .5 - 1.5 litres of there life (still breaking them in),
broken cons, broken pistons, scored barrels. (all of the motors had failed bearings and no pin washers)

all of which i have had the answer back from builder was, wrong oil, water in engine.... over heating, all of which was just on one of the motors, nothing but "customer is wrong" additude.
All 5 motors were built in my opinion sub standard,

so, after all this i decided to pull apart the last of the pro mod engines before running it can anyone spot anything wrong.
P.s all the engines were built like this,

after the first motor failed i tried to talk to the builder bring up the concern about the rest of the motors but got very little response
i tired to even suggest splitting the difference on parts and buying another engine but with proper bearing and washers. but no good.

now its past the 3 months warranty period so he defiantly wont do anything now.(first motor failed before) others failed 3 days after on second breaking day

now i wont bother putting his name or company up on this,
all i can do is join the 5 other people that he has burnt in Australia with crap motors (wish i had found out about these earlier).

I agree, the name of builder should be mentioned and him given a chance to give his side of the story. Otherwise kind of useless bring it up here except to give examples of engine failures.

Also, I strongly disagree with Steve's comments about engine builders charging too much for their work. I think you like to be paid for your work too Steve. If I want to charged $200/hr for my work, that's my choice and my right. If you want my work, pay for it, if you don't want it don't pay for it. That's the beauty of it all! Everyone has the option to chose. When you pay for quality and get quality you are generally happy and satisfied. If you pay for quality and get junk, then you have the right to complain. If you cheap out and get junk, live with it.

JMHO.

I believe I read this post at some point before the 3 hour ( later ) edit. And the "supplier's" name was mentioned.

For a person who knows what to look for, there's a world of difference in the "value" of these modified motors. The process has been standardized and speeded up greatly by the CNC programs. Those programs can be used for perfect repeatability, and to free up more time to develop more and better products for the hobby, or they can be used to spit out sub standard profit makers.

I do not sell my motors. I know what it takes to build a reliable powerplant. I have seen the quality motors and I've seen the junk.
There is so much more that goes into producing a quality modified motor than just the porting job, and THAT'S where the "value" is. The quality builder puts more design, better components, skill and experience into his motor. And when that motor is sold for $600, THAT builder's profit is very reasonable. We all know there's guys out there that Dremel a cyld. for a couple hours ( some, not even ), and sell their motors cheap. If that's what ya want, good luck.

Your statement, "For a person who knows what to look for, there's a world of difference in the "value" of these modified motors." is absolutely correct Dennis. What about the people who do not know what to look for? Every time a modeler purchases a modified motor, is it a requirement to disassemble the engine to make sure things are done correctly? What is a fair price for things that need to be done to make an engine more powerful & reliable? Is the $600.00 price you quoted reasonable for a rebuilt & trued crankshaft; slotted connecting rod; piston work; head work; porting work; timing changes, measurements, disassembly & assembly, careful cleaning, testing if done & some type of guarantee?
JA

Maybe, if each competent engine modifier or boat builder would take one individual & mentor this person, their would be much less of the kind of stuff seen in the posted photos. I am doing this at present with a fellow model boater in my club. After 3 years of some intense guidance he tells me that he can now see the difference in the performance & reliability of the gas powered hydroplane oval boat, which he uses in competition. Since this was his first wood boat of any type, a great amount of time had to be spent on building the hull correctly. I volunteered the engine work done to the QD engine used with the understanding he must learn how to do what is necessary to the engine in the future.

Jim Allen

Jim, it's great that you have taken a fellow club member under your wing to help him understand, rather than just " do it this way". The larger situation is that of the knowledgeable builders, there aren't a lot that are able and willing to put in the time and effort to guide and explain all the ins n outs of WHY we do the work. And truth be told, very few modelers really want to become eng. builders. But they DO want solid advice. And if they can get that from someone with no monetary axe to gring, it's a little easier to believe and trust. While they may never modify an eng., if they have a better understanding of what's in there and why, they will be a much better "field mechanic", able to help themselves and others.

There are many ways of "giving back" to the hobby, and some of us have to do what we can in our own way. I believe that people who are interested in guiding others with understanding, can reach out to receptive ears the best through these great forums. I'm sure you Jim, as well as me and others, receive many PMs and Emails from Australia, Canada, The US, Africa wanting our advise and opinions. And while we are ALL learning everyday, I'm sure some of that help has been passed along and that THAT, is a wonderful way of giving back. There are pitfalls though, when you try to explain an answer in detail, on the forums. Some of the experienced guys see it as you going on and on, "writing a novel", stating the "obvious". If it was only the experienced, knowledgeable guys reading the forums, there would be no need for them. I for one, have been building and modifying automotive machinery, and trying to explain the WHYs to the young guys for 50 years. I am blessed that my son has a passionate interest in the same thing.

The best advise I can offer to the average engine buyer, who doesn't necessarily know what to look for ( and shouldn't have to ), is to buy a quality motor from one of the hobby's motor "icons". Guys that have been doing it very well forever, that have been the developers of the processes, and are still producing great results. Matthew @ M&D, Carlo @ CC Racing, Mitch @ Quick Draw.

Its never a novel Dennis its always good to hear your thoughts as well as others everybody has different ideas,that engine work is junk for sure,i think once you get a good builder stick to them or like others have said give it a whirl yourself
Andrew